time of death
are you a believer of “time”?
you know, the argument or idea that we all die, when it is our “time”. it doesn’t matter where we are, or what we are doing, if it is our “time”, we will go. nothing, or no one, can stop us from passing. that somehow, in some unexplainable nature of things, there is something or someone beyond ourselves that allows death to happen at the intended “time”.
or do you advocate the thought that there are deaths that are simply caused by others’ stupidity, carelessness, and thoughtlessness?
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i have been a bedside nurse for a total of 9 years now. i know that is a short time compared to a lot of nurses, but just like the veteran bedside nurses, i have seen, touched, smelled, and faced death so many times, it almost seems ordinary. in those 9 years, i have witnessed deaths of different kinds.
there are patients who come in with very simple problems. silently, we often question why they are wasting their time in a creepy hospital room when they could have just rested in the comfort of their homes and get better without medical intervention. a few days later, in some unbelievable twist of fate, these very same relatively healthy people die. they die unexpectedly. usually, there would be all kinds of scientific medical explanations. these explanations sometimes make their deaths reasonable, but it doesn’t always make it acceptable.
there are patients who come in with very complicated health problems. silently, we often question why they are wasting their time in a creepy hospital room when they could have rested in the comfort of their homes and peacefully pass without the intrusions and invasions of medical hands all over their fragile bodies. yet, these very same dying patients, in some unbelievable twist of fate, miraculously get better and go home. they go home cured, without any kind of logical medical explanations. their healing would always be acceptable, but it doesn’t always make it medically explainable.
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the other night, i overtook the care of a middle aged Spanish speaking male patient. he started pretty well, meaning he was fairly healthy, generally speaking. he was primarily brought to the hospital for a dvt, and was only staying for another day to be cleared of a tuberculosis suspicion. at the end of the AM shift however, he started having mild chest pain on and off, and was occasionally short of breath. it prompted the doctors to order a few more tests, and caused the family to be very concerned.
when night shift began, he was getting more uncomfortable, and the family more concerned. after about two hours under the care of another nurse, who believed she did everything she can to attend to his and his worried family’s needs, the family demanded another nurse because they believed that their nurse “was extremely rude”.
within the first hour, it was determined that he might be having a pulmonary embolism. for three hours under my care, this patient required almost all of my time. i have done nursing stuff that would have taken care of four other patients in a 12 hour shift. it didn’t help that my other patient’s potassium dropped to 2.0, and her BP to 71/40, but i digress.
this guy needed all of my attention, and i gave it to him. i have gave him blood, reassured his family. bolused him with heparin, reassured his family. started heparin drip, reassured his family. bolused him liters of fluid, reassured his family. given him pain medicine, reassured his family. repositioned him, reassured his family. changed his linens, reassured his family. constantly monitored his vital signs, reassured his family. contacted the doctors countless numbers of times, reassured his family. etc. etc. etc, reassured his family.
finally, the arrangements for his transfer to icu were finalized. with another RN, we transported him. we decided to take the bigger elevator to accomodate his family who were understandably sick with worry. my stomach was turning in anxiety. i was holding on to the ambu bag and was anticipating coding him either in the elevator or just before the elevator door opened.
the freaky elevator took about 10 minutes to open! 10 minutes! that is a lifetime! the idea to go to the elevators in the other end of the building came up and was attempted, but was not pursued because it was not a good idea. this whole time, i can feel my heart racing, my adrenaline shooting up. i was beginning to get shaky in pessimistic fearful anticipation. not so much from fear of not being able to handle the whole situation properly, but the fear of not knowing how to console his family if his “time” did come in front, or inside that gigantic elevator.
the icu staff helped us transfer him to their bed. after losing all that energy, we went back to our unit, relieved. drained, but relieved. an hour later, we found out he coded! 5 minutes after we left the icu! the weary intern told us he was revived and was already in a ventilator when he left the icu. “by far, this is the craziest night of my life!”, the intern exclaimed, and told us how perfect our timing was.
was it really because our timing was perfect that he was still alive? was it really because he was in the hands of trained, intelligent professionals in the icu that he did not die? is that really it? or was it because it was not his time yet?
“to every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: a time to be born, and a time to die…”
so said the supposed wisest man in the history of the world. what does that mean exactly? does it mean that medical intervention efforts done are pointless because we are powerless against an unknown destiny of death? would it even matter if we don’t pay attention to our health because even if we practice healthy living, when our time comes, it will come even to those who are perfectly healthy? or is this supposed wisdom just a load of nonsense, because we actually have a say in the when and how of our death? do researches that show that people are actually living longer now prove this ancient words wrong?
also, how about this whole idea of premonition? either of the dying person himself, or that of his family? do we, or someone we love really have that sense from nowhere that death is imminent? i still vividly remember my mom saying ” i’m just too tired and i just want to rest. i don’t want this (meaning dialysis, meds, tests) anymore”, an hour before she passed away. did she know her time was coming? did she mean rest as in “rest in peace”?
are these questions just a variation of the presence versus absence of God debates, and therefore impossible to figure out on both equally yet oppositely convinced parties? is there even a point in asking all these questions?
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when someone dies from a bizarre vehicular accident caused by a drunk driver, how do you accept this concept of “time”? you don’t. you don’t just accept something like that. it is very reasonable to blame the mindless drunk driver.
on the second thought, how was it that your loved one was at that exact spot, at that exact moment, when it could have been someone else? or when he could have been somewhere else? and why is it that there are people who have had far worse accident scenarios who come out literally without a scratch?
can medicine really claim credit when a patient’s life is prolonged or saved? can we really say we knew what to do and we did it well, thus preventing death? or can we really blame stupid or slow doctors and nurses, lack of modern technology, lousy lab technicians for losing a loved a one?
these thoughts maybe be totally senseless to others, but these ideas boggle my idle mind. it is never pleasant to contemplate about anything death related, but death is one of those things that won’t go away even if ignored. the gloomy weather seems to magnify gloomy thoughts, but that experience the other night just automatically refreshed these repressed questions.
am i all alone in thinking these thoughts?
do you ever pause and ask these kinds of questions?
if you do, what are YOUR thoughts?…


God, the timing of bring that patient to the ICU seems uncanny. I do believe that there is a destined time for things, and perhaps this was one of them. And as far as crediting medicine to saving lives, and bad care for killing…I think we can say both happen. I guess my question then combines both: does this mean the good care or bad care and its subsequent outcome was destined to occur? Or would the outcome be the same regardless of the care?
Comment by Labor Nurse — March 23, 2007 @ 8:51 pm
May, if I had ever been tagged for that “thinking blog” meme, I would have chosen your blog in a heartbeat. Always such thought-provoking posts.
I haven’t really ever thought about it before. Which is really weird, because I see death occur often. I do believe in the statement that we all have “our time” to die (as in, “It was just his time to go”) but I do NOT believe that that time is pre-ordained or fated. I think the timing of our deaths is completely based on the condition of our bodies and our minds. (Condition of the mind meaning that some people “wait” to die until they are alone, or until a certain family member has arrived, etc… and I do believe that that happens.)
Your transfer to the ICU coding 5 minutes after you left was a coincidence. Think of all the people that have coded in the elevator, or on the floors… some of them lived due to our intervention, and some of them have died regardless of what we did. Maybe some died because someone forgot to bring the med box on the elevator. Maybe some lived because an especially experienced nurse happened to float to a particular unit that day. I think those instances are pure luck. It could have just as easily happened that the med box was brought onto the elevator or a very inexperienced nurse was floated to the floor and the opposite outcome happened.
I love a really good “that’s too creepy to be a coincidence” story as much as anyone else, but that’s all it is. Coincidence. Luck.
I have coded people several times over a shift. I have paid close attention to what has happened between the first code and the time of death. I have often noticed that not one thing changed in that time, physically, in the room. No change in family members coming or going, no one telling the patient that they can “go” or that they have to fight to stay alive.
For an unconscious person walking the tightrope between this dimension and the next - what was the point of living those few extra hours? Living through those extra shocks, those extra chest compressions? There are just some patients that you *know* are not going to make it out alive no matter what. It doesn’t take any special perception at all - if the patient is on 3 pressors, 5 antibiotics and 3 different forms of life support - well, their remaining lifetime is being measured in minutes or hours.
So I always wondered if it was mental. Maybe unconscious people can still think or are aware on some plane. Maybe they coded several times over a few hours but finally died because they mentally came to peace with it. Or maybe they were dragged into death kicking and screaming because their bodies simply could not take another minute.
Or maybe we’re just organisms just like everything else and death just happens when it happens.
Wow, that was long
Comment by geena — March 23, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
May, beautifully, eloquently put. Geena, how can you be so sure that it is unequivocally coincidence? Humbly and with no offense intended, if we lose the desire to inquire, seek, and wonder, we lose a meaningful part of our humanity.
Age old questions that ultimately come down to what one chooses to believe…
Comment by vik — March 24, 2007 @ 1:33 am
Like almost every nurse, I have seen people die from things that wouldn’t have killed a fly, and others walk away from things that would have devistated the strongest army.
That being said, I have come to the conclusion that death has it’s own appointed “time,” and that the “clumsy” and/or “stupid” doctor or nurse are the tools God used to make it happen.
In one of the long term care facilities I worked in I took care of a woman who “spoke to angels.” Now granted, that woman had severe dementia, but her confusion always revolved around her fantasies of being queen of some foreign land. Seeing angels was totally out of the norm for her, and when it first began to happen, frightened her greatly. Also, the angel scenario would only last a single day when it occurred, unlike her normal delusions which she would cling to for days.
Gradually I began to notice a pattern. When “G” said she was seeing angels, someone in the facility would die unexpectedly within a few hours of her saying they had left. Including a staff member once.
This was eight years ago. “G” has long since passed, and I have never had that experience with anyone else. I have, however, seen far too many other strange things to deny the existance of a “Higher Power.” If I accept the existance of God, then ultimately I have to accept the fact that “to everything there is a season.”
Comment by Joe — March 24, 2007 @ 4:44 am
Hi, I am a hospice nurse and have seen every kind of death. Fortunately, I do not have to code dying people. I have given a lot of thought to the issues you bring up. It comforts me greatly to think that maybe we choose the lives we are born into and the kind of death we have for purposes of learning the lessons we need to learn. The most valiant souls are those who pick difficult lives. But I don’t know.
Comment by Kaliki — March 24, 2007 @ 6:46 am
Vik, no offense taken. I’m always looking out for something, anything, to change my mind. I just haven’t come across anything. Rest assured, my mind remains open to any possibility.
Comment by geena — March 24, 2007 @ 10:41 am
As a nurse for 20 years, I have seen some strange things, too…but for me there are always more questions than answers. I guess we are lucky to see people up close and intimate (though often a little more than we want to be!) to see the many variations of the human condition. I’m interested in other people’s views on death and the after-life, but I don’t think I will ever know until I get there myself.
Comment by RN — March 24, 2007 @ 6:24 pm
That’s what I love about your site. It raisess thought-provoking questions not usually tackled by ultra-conservative Filipino’s like Time and Death.
On “Time” though, I for one believe on such but somehow on a different perspective as not to slack off or anything but to be motivated more or on risking your life. like “Hey if I’m gonna die in this plane then I’ll die”. I’ve always believed that there are no coincidences and the Law of Attraction works within our lives. Everything that happens is created by our thoughts, even accidents. That’s why I’ve always tell people to be careful what you’re thinking.
Comment by Ferdz — March 25, 2007 @ 2:55 am
That was quite a post! You certainly put a lot of thought and heart into it …
There was a time that I believed that everything had “its season” … a time to die, a time to be born … etc., and I still do believe that for everything, there is a season - but that’s not quite the same thing. The former is like predestination … and the latter is natural order.
I don’t believe that we have “our time to die” in a pseudo-scientific sense, but rather that our physiology begins to break down for innumerable varieties of reasons, some we still don’t understand.
Is para-predestination an effect of chaos theory’s “butterfly phenomenon”? For that matter, how random is chaos?
May, another thing to realize - if we believe that we “have a time” … then that obviates hope in any instance. There’s no need to try to avoid dangers, stay healthy … or in the case of someone with a serious, but potentially curable disease (like some cancers), fight to continue, to go on living …
I would dearly love to sit and chat with you over a cup of coffee, and explore some of these ideas. Too bad we’re at opposite ends of the country.
Thank you, my dear - for a great post!
Comment by Moof — March 25, 2007 @ 6:49 am
I don’t think there is a time for people to die. I think some people CHOOSE their time. How often have you taken care of someone who should have been dead months prior but is hanging on for some reason (like to watch a grandchild graduate?)
I also think that sometimes the body just gives up, as it’s time, not because anybody decides it is time.
Finally, a good friend passed away in a MVC a couple years after we graduated from college. She was finally moving out West, finally got the job of her dreams, we had the going away party for her, and she was leaving the next day to drive to her family’s house on the way to California. She fell asleep at the wheel and hit a tractor trailer head on just 2 miles from her childhood home. There was no timing about that one, it was just an accident that involved her.
Deity or no deity, sometimes it just….is.
Comment by Betsy B. — March 25, 2007 @ 6:54 am
I dont know May. I’d hate to think the passing of my 4 year old nephew was in anyway “his time”. I believe he was meant to live a longer life. But why and how comes and when’s? I just don’t think about it. I honestly have taken on the whole “Live for today” sort of mentality. That way I have no regrets about anything. But when I should go, I hope that my family knows I was ready. But not ready to leave them. If that makes sense.
Comment by kimmyk — March 25, 2007 @ 4:42 pm
May, I’ll give you my mother’s answer: Man proposes, God disposes.
It’s not a bad answer when you think about it: There may be such a thing as “your time” — but that’s in God’s hands, not ours — and we get to rage, rage against the dying of the light right up until the decision is taken out of our hands.
And I sure wouldn’t want to tempt fate on the theory that it’s not yet “my time!”
Interesting read.
Comment by The Curmudgeon — March 25, 2007 @ 9:03 pm
We all have a ‘time’ to go but sometimes, especially in the medical field i can’t help but feel that some people make that time come a lot sooner
of course they also delay it sometimes
Comment by Rygel — March 25, 2007 @ 10:41 pm
such a great post may! all of those questions are confusing b/c not a single one has a straight answer. time of death always has me scratching my head…why a 20year with leukemia, why the car accident, why the unanticipated M.I. in the middle of the workday? it leaves a persons mind restless because there is no antidote for the pain of losing someone you love. (this is my thought anways
Comment by kt — March 26, 2007 @ 1:50 pm
Oh my! That is some pretty deep writing. I have always thought of myself as a deep thinker, but I have never been able to express it so well!
i am guilty of using “it was just there time” or ” there is a reason for this/everything”. I am also guilty of having a weak faith in God, although to be honest, I never let my patients know that. I have days were i really believe i, and days that I just say it.
Comment by mrs.r — March 26, 2007 @ 8:05 pm
Well done.
Personally I prefer questions over answers.
Comment by shrimplate — March 26, 2007 @ 9:08 pm
Speaking of “timing” - how ironic that you chose this particular day to post on this topic…
Friday was the first time in my life that I have seen someone after they had died. The nursing home where I was doing my clinical had lost one of its residents during the night, and we were “fortunate” to have the “learning opportunity” to be involved in the after care. Unfortunately, over-emotional me was a blubbering idiot, so was pretty much useless.
I know this is something to get used to, as you and others have stated, it becomes very common in nursing practice, but a difficult task, nonetheless, trying to learn to accept it…
I am trying to get up the nerve to blog about my experience and thoughts soon, but I’m not ready yet - still trying to get the images out of my head!! Makes me respect all of you seasoned nurses so much more.
Comment by Jen — March 26, 2007 @ 11:56 pm
The intimacy of the blogosphere is extraordinary! Your post, nurse May, is so beautifully written I anguished with you over that patient.
I believe there is ‘a time’ for my death and that the clock was set at my birth, in my physiology, as Moof says. I’ve always felt a strong sense of responsibility for taking as good care of myself as possible — mentally, physically, spiritually — so that whatever opportunities or difficulties come I can make the most of them, to my benefit and to others’. To me, there is great hope in this perspective because each day is another chance to exercise my power to order my thoughts and to rediscover what is most valuable to me.
Comment by Peggy — March 29, 2007 @ 5:31 am
Wow, great post! I once said that a code was like having a tug-of-war with God and the only reason we “win” is because God lets go of the rope and allows us to.
Every single one of your thoughts has crossed my mind at one time or another. The CCU patient who wants her husband at 0300 and wants him NOW and then codes within the hour…(we got the husband, thank goodness).
Hmmm…I feel a blog post inspiration coming on….
Comment by Kim — March 30, 2007 @ 2:19 pm
“can medicine really claim credit when a patient’s life is prolonged or saved?”
- to a certain degree, yes, especially if it is a simple case. dvt can cause pulmonary embolism so it can be explained. but most cases are not simple. the patient you described probably has other ailments influencing his major condition. in my experience, a confluence of bad factors usually kills the patient. medicine can safely claim credit to the explanation part whether the patient survived or not; it cannot always say it saved the day because for all its merits, it remains an imperfect science.
“can we really say we knew what to do and we did it well, thus preventing death?”
- not all the time. as i said it remains an imperfect science. we discover new things as we go along.
“…or can we really blame stupid or slow doctors and nurses, lack of modern technology, lousy lab technicians for losing a loved a one?”
- sometimes, yes. technical errors can kill. wrong dosages. wrong medication given. leaving a surgical scissors inside the patient. sleepy doctors making bad decisions. fast iv instead of slow iv.
Consider a health-conscious person who never smokes, eats the right food, exercises often, and has laboratory exam values any doctor will be happy about. He is as healthy as the finest definition of what healthy is. But what happens? While crossing the road, he gets hit by a speeding car, and dies immediately.
What do you call that? Is that because he was negligent in looking first before crossing the street, or is that because it was his time already to die?
A friend priest insists the answer is the latter, but my personal belief is that there is always an explanation why things happen. The man is religiously strict when it comes to obvious health matters, but I think he was not paying attention to basic safety precautions when crossing the street. Simple matter, but fatal in the end. Still, there was an explanation.
Of course, I can be wrong. But that is my opinion. Solomon says there is a time to die. For me that means some sort of guide post and not a fate matter that determines our future whether we like it or not. Free will exists and we can choose what we want to happen in this life. Our inability to have definite answers to some questions should not push us to be impatient enough to believe that the flow of things have been preordained. The answers are there somehow. We should be patient enough to wait and discover them.
My dos sentimos. Forgive me if it was lengthy.
Happy Easter, May!
Comment by Dr Emer — April 7, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
I have often wondered about “time”. I lost my son to a drunk driver. A week before he said “I have no reason to live”. Also, the day he left and was hit, I told him not to go that it was going to rain and I didnt want him out on a rainy night. Was this coincedence? Since then I have talked with people in M.A.D.D. One girl who lost her son to drunk driver said that her son’s g/f’s mom said he couldn’t go with them. The girl and her mom left and got a ways away and decided to turn back and get the boy and bring him with them. Later that night he was killed while with his g/f(girl wasnt hit). Was this coincedence? Another womans son wanted a ride to store to get cigarettes, she told her son that he doesnt need to smoke and needs to quit. He decided to walk then, as soon as he left she felt she should of gave him ride. He was hit by a drunk driver and killed. Another woman’s daughter was grounded. Her daughter’s b/f came over and he is only around every other weekend. So the woman let her daughter off groundation to go with the b/f. Both were killed by drunk driver. Coincedence?…It is like there was something there to stop each thing from happening((rain, not going,giving ride, groundation)). Creepy to think about. If in each situation, I kept my son home cause of the rain, woman never came back to get the boy, woman gave ride, woman kept daughter on groundation, outcome would be different. Makes me think is there a warning but maybe we don’t see them because we are blind to them or are we blind to them because it is their “time”.
Comment by Valerie — April 17, 2007 @ 6:46 am