blogosphere buzz: my problem with beer is…
let me start off by setting it straight that i totally agree with geena.
the money spent in forcing an unwilling alcoholic to detox, is, in my opinion a waste of money. and yes, thousands of dollars would have been spared if there is a clear protocol or policy that states that anybody in the healthcare system does not have the right to impose to a patient the decision of when or how he will battle his addiction.
i have no doubt that the suggested, and what have been done, based on the first comments on the post is a reasonable way to save a lot of money. you know, when a drunk patient comes in for let’s say a broken bone because he tripped over out of extreme drunkeness, fix the bone, give him a few bottles of beer after surgery, then send him home with the teaching that he was lucky to just have a broken bone this time, but if he does not stop opening the bottles, a time will come when he will be harder or impossible to fix. financially, this is the most logical thing to do. i absolutely agree with that statement.
i will not elaborate further on the idea because it will be redundant. what i am going to talk about is MY own feelings about the whole thing.
in the hospital where i work, we do exactly what most hospitals do with alcoholics. we fix the presenting problem, then “impose” the detox. ativan here, librium there, restraints there, prolong the hospital stay here. when i worked in the philippines, i have not encountered this issue maybe because most of the sick alcoholics are never brought to the hospital. what this fact means is that i have never given any patient an alcoholic drink.
the thought now is not that i do not agree with this idea as logical, because i already set it straight that i agree it is very logical. the question is, will i be comfortable in doing it? my problem is, logic doesn’t always synch with my personal comfort zone. if one day, a doctor tells me to give my patient a beer, will i open the bottle, and with a smile, offer it wihtout a second thought?
it didn’t surprise me that my answer to the above question is a loud, bold, NO. just as i will do everything within my power to convince a patient not to go off the unit to smoke, i will probably go around looking for excuses not to give the alcohol.
at first, i cannot think of any reasonable explanation for this. why would i have inhbitions in doing something that i believe to be logical? i have already concluded that dealing with an addict, whether it is food, cigarette, or alcohol is a complicated situation. i have also established that no matter what kind of teaching, even “threatening” we do, (”yes sir, smoking can affect your sexual capacities”) it will never be up to us to decide what the patient wants to do with his body.
then, i realized something…
the desire to fix other people’s addcition is rooted from a childhood experience. i clearly remember the times when my siblings and i had to drag my dad or brother out of the street in fear that they will be run over or killed because they already looked worse than dead.
i have vivid memories of the pain alcoholism inflicted on me and my loved ones. there have been countless number of times when i wished i can just wave a magic wand and make all the drinks disappear. the idea that “if they don’t see it, they will never dirnk it, then, they’ll be better” have always been there. turns out, it is not just an idea, it is wishful thinking.
you know, just maybe, this patient wants me to intervene, and he just doesn’t have the courage to say it. maybe. maybe if i step up for him, and start the whole detox process even if he didn’t really ask for it, maybe he will come around and commit. maybe.
this is why i have no problems in giving the ativan. this is why i never question the supposed imposition of detox. in my head, even as i stand in front of the patients as their nurse, in my heart, i am still that little girl, terrified that alcohol will take away my dad, my brother, or my aunt. and maybe, i can save them. just maybe. just maybe.
so, i have a lot of questions. as always.
am i the only one having second thoughts in implementing such a simple but logical solution?
those who are uncomfortable in giving their alcoholic patients a drink or two in the name of logic, how do you psyche yourself to do it?
those who are comfortable in doing it, do you ever feel, even in a small way, like an enabler?
the loved ones of alcoholics who are in the hospital for other health issues, what do you think about all this?
those patients who have experienced the “forced” detox protocol, how do you feel about it afterwards?
those patients who were left alone, given a drink to prevent withdrawal, was there ever a time you “wished” the doctors “forced” you to detox?
i’d like to hear your thoughts. any thought. please?
THANKS.
and thanks to geena for bringing this up.
pondering on a saturday morning is always a good thing.
________________________
blogosphere buzz is explained here.


I have never had an order from a doc to give a patient alcohol. I’ve heard about other nurses doing it but I never have.
That said, I would absolutely give them beer, wine, whatever while they were in the hospital. I would not feel like an enabler, not even a little bit. Although alcoholism did not affect my life as strongly as it did yours, May, it definitely has a presence in my family.
I feel very strongly that an acute care hospital is not a rehab.
I’m very interested to read other comments!
Comment by geena — May 10, 2008 @ 9:13 pm
Happy Mother’s Day May!!!
Comment by kimmyk — May 11, 2008 @ 3:45 am
I never give up on others, because though alcoholism has never been my problem, I have been difficult to deal with sometimes and important people in my life did not give up on me. You never know when someone’s teachable moment will occur. Suppose ten years later someone else seizes the day and offers assistance. Now you have a patient who will wonder the rest of their life why no other professionals tried to help.
Onehealthpro
Comment by Onehealthpro — May 11, 2008 @ 9:22 am
We used to have a Dr in the medical unit of a mid sized hospital I used to work in that used to order alcohol on a regular basis.
For long term patients, and we had a lot of them, he would offer them a whiskey or a brandy at night instead of a sleep aid med.
It worked.
The patients were happy and relaxed,
they slept well and woke up without the drug induced sleep hangover.
The alcoholic patients were monitored very closely and only allowed a 20ml nip but it sometimes was enough in combination with meds.
It worked in that unit.
I’m not sure it would work where I am now,
But if they tried it I’d go along with it because I have seen it work positively in the past.
There are some patients who I would love to give a brandy instead of another medication to get them off to sleep and they would probably enjoy it a hell of a lot more, but things here are different!
Bigger hospital,
Different kind of staff and management,
Different type of patient.
Times change
Comment by Kj — May 11, 2008 @ 4:11 pm
Another excellent post on a complex subject. I agree with Geena that an acute care hospital isn’t a rehab unit, but I also understand your discomfort with giving an addict more of the drug that he or she is addicted to. In the case of an alcoholic, can’t the hospital administer a drug that substitutes for alcohol so that the addiction isn’t fed further?
Comment by Sid Leavitt — May 11, 2008 @ 7:32 pm
Having worked in a rehab center, I have seen that ‘forced’ detox does nothing to stop the drinking. You absolutely have to address the underlying issues. Having worked in hospitals that treated the presenting illness and detoxed the pt in order to continue treating the presenting illness, I’ve seen it doesn’t work in the long run. Having grown up with an alcoholic father and brother, I hate what alcoholism does to the person and the family. But would I give a pt a beer or whiskey on a doctor’s order to prevent DT’s and withdrawal? Yes. Because until that patient is ready to stop drinking, and until he/she is ready to face up to the ghosts that make them drink, nothing is going to stop them. Alcoholism is a disease, like diabetes. And you can’t make a diabetic compliant unless they want to be. And you can’t make an alcoholic stop drinking until they are ready. You just offer support and education. I respect your feelings on the topic. These are just mine.
Comment by Nurse Stella — May 12, 2008 @ 3:03 am
I have always been an ER nurse and have not dealt alot with pts detoxing. However, having an uncle who is an alcoholic I can not imagine if he is hospitalized that one beer TID or even a shot of whiskey at bedtime would do very much for his habit of 2 cases of beer a day. But whatever works.
ETOH withdrawl is one of the most(if not the most) dangerous things a person can go through, if a beer or two can help prevent it from occuring I say go for it.
Murse Charles
Comment by Murse Charles — May 12, 2008 @ 4:47 pm
thanks to everyone for your input.
sid: i am not aware of a drug that will substitute for alcohol, like a nicotene patch for smoking. if there is one out there, i do not see any reason why the docs won’t use it. i just assumed there is none because in the hospital where i work, there is no such thing.
Comment by may — May 13, 2008 @ 4:03 pm
Just discharged a meths drinker who realized the Hibiclense hand cleaner had a micron of alcohol in it and began to drink it by the glass full……
Had to strip her room of anything remotely drinkable..
Very inconvenient.
Comment by Kj — May 15, 2008 @ 3:06 pm
We had a patient who was on her 16th detox since the age of 13. She was only 24. She told us on one return visit that after her last detox her husband celebrated her return by making her dinner and buying her a bottle of wine. She didn’t get it. Either did he. Spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars on detoxing someone who doesn’t get it seems pointless to me. But that said, I don’t think I could pour an alcoholic a precribed 20ml of whiskey or open their beer can and hand it over with a smile. I don’t know what the solution is.
Comment by Student Nurse Nancy — May 16, 2008 @ 11:22 am